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The intelligent investors guide to cryptocurrency: Part 3a - The value proposition

Introductions: I'm joskye. A cryptocurrency investor and holder.
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Hi again. This is the third part in our ongoing series on how to trade better and determine intelligent investments in cryptocurrency for the future.
 
 
In part 3 I will now discuss Cryptocurrency valuations, price metrics and identifying coins of value, worth holding:
 
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What makes a coin worth holding: The value proposition
 
What makes anything worth holding? How much of themselves is a person willing to put into it - that's how much.
Cryptocurrency is largely driven by faith. It is a speculative enterprise i.e. people mostly put money into cryptocurrencies believing they will go up in value in the future; their plan to sell at a higher price when it does.
Currently most cryptocurrencies serve no function than being currencies in themselves. Unfortunately these currencies are largely not recognised by governments, most institutional investors or companies are legitimate stores of value or legitimate currencies of transaction. As such legislation and rules around the world regarding them vary considerably and are often absent.
There are very few cryptocurrencies that have legitimised backing, are insured or supported by enterprises that are insured for their loss and essentially there is little to protect you if you lose money through them.
 
So why do people bother putting money into cryptocurrencies it in the first place?
 
 
If the present and future value of a cryptocurrency is driven purely by speculation then you are essentially gambling by putting your money to buy that coin and joining the pool of other gamblers who are doing so. You are essentially joining a ponzi scheme and waiting game hoping you've gotten in early enough and convinced enough people to buy more of the asset you hold at slightly higher prices until a price is reached that you can cash out at (or until that thing becomes so big that everyone starts using it as their store of value).
 
This type of dynamic essentially underpins the mentality of most investments and trades i.e. buy low and sell high. I'd like to add buy early for investors since buying during a low in an already established asset may be setting yourself up for being forced to sell at a lower low later (especially if you don't understand the fundamentals of that asset).
 
If however the present or future value of a cryptocurrency is driven by some service other than speculation which can attract and drive fiat currency into it's ecosystem then it is potentially valuable.
 
I.e. will people actually use their USD/Yuan/Euro/GBP/Yen/INR etc to actually purchase the coin in question to do something useful with it (other than gamble on it's future price).
 
There are some cryptocurrencies which satisfy this criteria:
 
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Bitcoin
It is not a currency, it is a remittance system and store of value. It has a reputation increasingly to being seen as a digital version of gold.
 
 
 
 
 
Bitcoin has the cultural and historical advantage of being the first cryptocurrency. It is also still the largest cryptocurrency by a long way with the largest marketcap i.e. price per bitcoin [$952 as of writing] x the number of bitcoin in circulation [16,074,687] which is $15.3 billion. Compare to it's next biggest competitor Ethereum which has a marketcap of $700 million (i.e. only 4.57% of Bitcoin's).
 
 
 
 
Bitcoin's value proposition is that it is a store of value. It may not be able to sustain this without significant upgrades to it's underlying software.
 
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Monero (XMR)
Bitcoin does not have anonymity inherently built into it's software. Therefore if you buy and sell Bitcoin especially on cryptocurrency exchanges (where user registration is required), it is possible to trace whom Bitcoin is being transferred from and to.
 
 
For this reason I see Monero as Bitcoin + anonymity. I.e. it's value proposition is as store of hidden wealth. I also believe it does not have the issues that bitcoin does namely, same level of mainstream recognition, spotlight of regulatory awareness and developers do seem to be more focused on achieving better scalability and transaction times (it already does 10-20 minute verification time vs bitcoins 1 hour) which gives it better potential as a currency presently compared to Bitcoin.
 
 
I do believe fiat stored in Bitcoin will gradually transfer into Monero boosting it's value. I am not sure Monero though can presently bring fresh fiat currency (USD, Yuan etc) into it's ecosystem beyond outsider speculation in future price.
 
 
It is not unique in it's function or potential value proposition. My warning about holding Monero for the long term is that it has competition for it's function not just from Bitcoin itself but from other anonymous coins such as Zcash, DASH (which provides instantaneous settlement) and SDC. Perhaps more importantly, Ethereum (ETH) is now planning to implement optional anonymity (via zSNARKs) in it's transaction network; if it does when combined with Ethereum's own functionality and well defined development roadmap (that will likely several second verification times in late 2017) would render XMR potentially redundant.
 
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Ethereum (ETH)
The first cryptocurrency which was built with the specific intent of incorporating 'smart contracts' into it's platform.
 
 
The value proposition for Ethereum is that it allows for complex, trustless settlement systems to be built on it. This is a huge deal because the scope of applications is wide and although the technology needs to mature (to support greater transaction volume, frequency and more secure functionality) the sheer amount of fiat such a platform could attract through conversion of traditional centralised settlement and contract services to more secure decentralised platforms is very huge.
 
 
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PARTICL (PART) (formerly Shadowcash SDC)
The value proposition is a double escrow, fully anonymous, decentralised privacy platform which incorporates private chat, private marketplace and secure, trustless private settlement system into one platform that is fully integrated into it's own blockchain.
 
 
Particl has multiple features that make it an excellent store of value: Low coin supply, potential for great demand, near instantaneous transaction verification times, ability to earn interest for simply holding it.
 
Particl is incredibly easy to use and is heavily focused on usability. This is absolutely essential to it's end users: customers who seek convenient easy and speedy secure anonymous transaction. This will be a dream come true for traditional users of darknet markets.
 
To explain why lets elaborate on traditional darknet markets where in order to transact anonymously you have to:
1. Download the TOR browser. 2. Learn how to use it. 3. Buy XMR or Bitcoin. 4. Learn how to transact with these coins *safely* (yes this is still an issue with XMR in spite of it's built in privacy). 5. Learn how to and where to find reliable secure darknet markets. 6. Create accounts on these markets to access them *and* 7. Have faith that the websites and the highly centralised (and thus much more vulnerable) servers hosting those markets you use will not get shut down, not disappear with your money and not betray your transaction details and potentially identities to the authorities should they be infiltrated by them. 
Whereas with Particl's market place this process will become:
1. Download the Particl client. 2. Buy some PART on an exchange and transfer it to your Umbra client. 3. Browse the Particl marketplace and transact securely, safely and anonymously. 
 
 
In summary I think Particl can be a very useful application as a privacy platform for private communications and transactions.
 
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ICONOMI (ICN)
Those two points constitute it's value proposition. By nature of the way it works it has an easily identifiable P/E ratio based on the amount used to create the fund ($10.5 million) against the current value of that fund based on it's
 
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Summary lessons
 
The first rule in investing or trading in a given cryptocoin is deciding if it has a value proposition:
 
1. *Can it draw fiat currency (USD, Euro, Yuan etc) in such a way as to give it a valuation that is fully independent of pure speculation?* 2. *Is it unique?* 3. *Is it rare?* A limited supply with a low or negative inflation rate will lead to increasing price as demand goes up. 4. Are there significant risks associated with the value proposition? 
 
 
In the next article I will cover lesson 3b: Price metrics and valuations. It will be much shorter I promise but equally informative and we will cover topics such as price determination, impact of speculation, price manipulation, whales and their impact and the impact of bitcoin on the entire cryptocurrency ecosystem!
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References:
1. Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations, https://coinmarketcap.com/, Last Checked 30/01/2017 2. What is the value of all the Gold in the world? http://onlygold.com/Info/All-The-Gold-In-The-World.asp, Last Checked 30/01/2017. 3. ICONOMI Cryptocurrencies Index (ICNX) 21 December 2016 Rebalancing, https://medium.com/iconominet/iconomi-cryptocurrencies-index-icnx-21-december-2016-rebalancing-transformation-into-iconomi-8e31e48493ab#.sptgljv1c 4. ICNx trend chart, https://medium.com/iconominet/iconomi-cryptocurrencies-index-icnx-30-november-2016-monthly-rebalancing-update-3402866243d9#.kw7g4fqcd, Last updated 30th Nov 2017 5. Shadowcash (SDC) - The billion dollar baby!, https://medium.com/@paradox_/shadowcash-sdc-the-billion-dollar-baby-6b86f0660739#.ypz9yme5a, Last updated 16 August 2016. 
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Further articles in this series:
 
"The intelligent investors guide to cryptocurrency"
 
Part 0 -
Part 1 -
Part 2 -
Part 3a -
Part 3b -
Part 4 -
Part 5 -
Part 6 -
Part 7a -
 
"The intelligent investors guide to Particl -"
 
 
Full disclosure/Disclaimer: At time of original writing I had long positions in Ethereum (ETH), Shadowcash (SDC), Iconomi (ICN), Augur (REP) and Digix (DGD). All the opinions expressed are my own. I cannot guarantee gains; losses are sustainable; do your own financial research and make your decisions responsibly. All prices and values given are as of time of first writing (Midday 30th-Dec-2016).
 
Second disclaimer: Please do not buy Shadowcash (SDC), the project has been abandoned by it's developers who have moved on to the Particl Project (PART) (www.particl.io). The PARTICL crowd fund and SDC 1:1 token swap completed April 15th. You can still exchange SDC for PART but only if it was acquired prior to 15th April 2017 see: https://particl.news/a-community-driven-initiative-e26724100c3a for more information.
 
Addendum: Article updated 23-11-2017 to edit references to SDC (changed to Particl where relevant to reflect updated status) and clean up formatting.
submitted by joskye to Particl [link] [comments]

FAQs

FAQs - All Frequently Asked Questions Posted and Updated Here
Q: I have lost massive sums holding various cryptocurrencies since leading coins such as Ethereum have fallen -88% peak-to-trough so far in 2018 and it looks as if it will fall further given the overpriced nature of Ethereum. Vitalik Buterin, the creator of Ethereum said himself that the cryptospace is way too overvalued. That said, why do I want my money tied up on your platform for 9 months? What are the advantages? How much risk am I taking?
A: With Hansecoin, multiple investors will be able to own a piece of the capital gain potential and yield of real estate, some land, an apartment, or an entire apartment complex. The asset provides a floor to the price and increases stability versus speculative tokens.
We are building out the world's first tokenisation platform that will be compliant with regulations. The first project Use Case when secured may deliver underlying yields of 7 to 11.4% or higher, potential capital gains, and provide bonuses and access to future project tokens at an attractive discount versus those joining after the Vesting Period. There is a revolutionary future in its application across multiple asset classes. Notably, this tokenisation approach may become a template for asset backed token projects.
With proof of concept at hand and construction started, the project shall be scaled up as several additional hard asset projects are in the queue and the platform can be white labelled. Our platform offers a replacement tool for the transaction-cost-inefficient closed-end fund structures or venture capital transactions while remaining small, solid, compact and in full regulatory compliance.
Reduced Risk: We are immune to the direction of cryptospace. Even if Ethereum were to go to zero, our token would still be valid and contractually binding. In light of the steep losses in Ethereum and other coins, the participant can stop the hemorrhaging by locking in their cryptocurrencies at a fixed rate in euros for the next 9 months while taking comfort in knowing the above benefits apply, ie, yields, capital gains, bonuses, future project access at a discount, etc. Further, the potential participation in prime residential real estate located a brief commute of 15 minutes from the city center in Tallinn, Estonia carries low risk given the history of otherwise equivalent, yet in terms of quality, design and attractiveness, inferior real estate projects launched in the neighbourhood which still sold out ahead of schedule. Indeed, the demographics of families in formation together with Estonia leading the EU in economic growth is a powerful combination contributing to the breakneck speeds of development in Tallinn.
Estonia has continuously the highest average GDP in the EU (if you compare the current members from 1994 to 2018) and thus is the EU’s fastest growing country. Estonia has been billed as the world’s leading digital nation given its pioneer status of its digital ID card program, the spread of free and ultra high speed WiFi across the country, being the pond from where Skype and Pipedrive sprung, and more. Today, its welcoming position on blockchain technologies, equivalent to that of Switzerland, as well as its e-Residency program is well known. e-Residency enables businesses to transact goods and services regardless of geographic location with the digital signature capacity known from the ID card program. Estonia’s regulators are sincerely collaborative, open for discussion, and evidently working with substantial commitment to create a fair system of regulation, monitoring and enforcement of the current legislation. They are comparatively solution driven so as to remain welcoming to the blockchain community. This explains why Estonia has the highest number of ICOs launched per capita and is ranked #5 worldwide.
From the CEO of CoinMetro, Kevin Murcko: “Although I get approached quite often to advise on ICO projects I rarely bite. Most, while they may be great 'back of napkin ideas' they usually lack substance and their teams, while sometimes quite elaborate, lack the drive, hunger, and experience to take a great idea and turn it into a great business. HanseCoin is different. The company focuses on a very specific use case for tokenization, the Asset-Backed Token, and it puts it to the test.
Not only does it provide a hedge against crypto volatility but it puts that money toward the creation of a regulator-approved platform for tokenizing any hard asset.
As a member of the Supervisory Board, I helped design the tokenization structure and I believe there is a revolutionary future in its application across multiple asset classes.
As As CEO of CoinMetro is it my job to ensure that we are constantly on the lookout for ways to gain market share and add value to not only our platform but the whole of the crypto ecosystem ... Essentially we are talking about an extension of the ICOexpress, call it a 'module', one of many in the works.”

Q: How are you compliant? Many ICOs fail to be even minimally compliant.
A: First, this is not a typical ICO but this structure represents the next evolutionary stage in asset financing in the cryptospace. We are one of if not the world’s first actual asset backed token (ABT) ICO backed by real estate. Together with our counsel and our partners from Coin Metro, we have stayed in lock-step with the regulators here in Estonia to ensure that regardless of future regulatory decisions made, due to the versatility of the project structure, it will remain compliant without that adversely affecting the business. Our token remains a utility token as demonstrated by PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) as it is neither a security, a debenture, nor a money market instrument. Still, we are prepared to issue a security token in the future should it become a suitable option and make sense to our expansion. Albeit that from our discussion with the relevant authorities it seems unlikely today Estonia may well pass legislation in this regard. Most importantly, leading companies are connected to our platform and its first project: we have Capital Mill, a leading developer and asset manager, as the real estate project manager, Uusmaa Kinnisvarabüro, the oldest and largest brokerage firm in Estonia as the residential sales agent, SWECO Projekt as the engineering company, 1Partner, a leading valuation company, as our appraiser, Telora AS as our supervisor, Studiomark as our architectural firm, and leading Estonian construction firms allowing the project to be built on time and in suitable quality for the residential clients.

Q: Is VPAT compliant? Does VPAT obey regulation? What about the other tokens PPT and VBT?
A: VPAT is an island, disconnected, and not tradable. Is it non-transferrable thus not a security. VPAT is heavily vetted and all VPAT holders are registered via AML/KYC with CoinMetro. Should our Issuing Company decide to issue another token (PPT, etc), that token may become tradeable and subject to regulatory law at that point.
There is an inherent difference and segregation of the VPAT from the potential PPT or VBT tokens. At the end of 9 months, the VPATs are burned, swapped, or extended and only then are PPTs issued. VPAT holders get various bonuses and preferred issuance of PPTs.
The VPAT is a centralised virtual token which results in a receipt issued to the VPAT participants (like a voucher). It is not an Ethereum based ERC distributed token unlike the PPT which may become subject to the legal, technical and regulatory environment.
As always, we will comply with any future legal, technical, and regulatory law set forth.

Q: What are the advantages of your platform?
A: Our platform offers a replacement tool for a variety of transaction cost inefficient transaction structures. The unwieldy closed-end funds of yesteryear simply front load developments with heavy hand costs for management and distribution. They typically start at around 10 million euros. Friends & family and crowd funding asset capital raises are typically limited to 1.5 – to at best 2 ¼ million euros. Our platform enables a far more efficient and less costly way for anyone who wishes to tokenise a project and raise capital between 1.5 and 10 million euros for their hard asset project, including but not limited to real estate. Blockchain simplifies and facilitates transactions by removing redundant layers.

Q: Future plans to expand?
A: An asset backed tokenisation does not end with standard real estate. This can also be done with other associated hard assets such as factories which include identifiable, traceable and productive machinery and equipment. Indeed, the founders and their partners are themselves invested in industrial assets, farming and agritech. We believe that such capital intensive segments are ideal candidates for subsequent, larger asset backed tokenisation capital raises when the concept with its technology and documentation is proven.
Eventually, HanseCoin, subject to project success, markets and regulation, may even become an issuing house with an investment advisory license. We will also enable others to white label our product since a number of projects have expressed deep interest. Indeed, as stated in the above article, a number of notable voices in the blockchain space such as Multicoin Capital partner Kyle Samani have said, "Using blockchains, you can securitize any asset for 1/100th the cost.” According to Prof. Stephen McKeon of the University of Oregon, "We will undoubtedly see tokenized real estate securities in 2018." An analyst at Apex Token Fund went on to explain, "A new level of liquidity is created when tokenizing traditional assets. This liquidity makes it faster and easier to rebalance a portfolio as the market changes."

Q: Please explain unpaid taxes to the Estonian government as raised here: https://www.reddit.com/CoinMetro/comments/9lyjie/comment/e7g8ws6
A: First, Tiskre Residentsid paid its October land taxes. The company had EUR 3,407.31 land tax to pay which EMTA demands on Oct 1, and we had scheduled to pay them alongside TSD declaration by Oct 10. Notably, we paid it today ahead of time. There is no tax debt and we would expect this to be reflected with the usual delay at sources such as ‘Inforegister’.
Second, Reval Grundwert is a family venture which arranges services to group entities including concept and implementation design, engineering and supervision, planning, family investment. A previous accountant miscalculated and misrepresented two smaller tax filings for which she taken to account and court. The restatement and reconciliation is underway with EMTA.

Q: How do you securitize the asset? Is it asset backed at the beginning?
A: The VPAT token is issued and provides a receipt as noted in the info memo. Funds are employed for the project platform infrastructure/software development and to secure the use case. The owners contribute the land into the asset company at a EUR 459,810 or a 15.4% discount to appraised market value to effectively sponsor the platform development for the Use Case even ahead of the full raise and the potential PPT issuance. The externally appraised value only reflects a sale as is: no potential, no expected value increases, it is considered conservative. Initially, the Issuer provides a deposit to the Asset Company owners in lieu of the irrevocable undertaking to, in the future, enter into the contracts. The deposit in this instance covers 90% of the fixed asset price. All-in the relevant discount to fair market value is thus 23.8% which should be considered a substantial buffer.
From the closing of the hard floor raise through the VPAT, the Issuer by securing itself with the future documentation in escrow, irrevocable undertakings locked in, and a pledge over the asset company's shares, is collateralised throughout its infrastructure development phase. Even the VPAT is an asset backed token.
Note, in the unlikely event that the tokenisation were to fail with no regulatorily compliant tokenisation at hand or the Issuer to fail in its development, the Issuer would accelerate the share pledge against the Asset Company. The asset could be sold and even a fire sale should suffice to cover the Issuer's relevant risk exposure, a restructuring, rescission, or new development in light of the aformentioned large discount.
In case of questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Q: How long do actual building developments take? [USE CASE]
A: In a simplified form and besides weather conditions etc., individual buildings and their build out time depend on the building types of which there are 2 in sector 1 (one apartment, one row house), another one in sector 2 (simpler row houses) and again two types in sector 3 (apartment buildings) plus a kindergarten on the plot between 2 and 3. Some of them such as in sector 1 individually take between 6 and 7 months to build core and shell, and subject to the client package requirements (three pre-defined), the interior furnishing and fittings takes between 1 and 1.5 months. The row houses in sector 2 can be erected within 5-6 months, then interiors and the furnishing as above plus landscaping (seasonal). The affordable housing in sector 3 could be built in the same time frame for the simpler apartment buildings and about 11 months for a grouping of three which are best erected as an ensemble.
A time schedule has been defined by the accredited, experienced external project management firm with owners, engineers, architects, interior architects and reputable construction companies which shows the targeted build out rhythm with overlapping and parallel build-outs. You can find this information in the project model section p.30 onwards. If you have specific questions do not hesitate to contact us and we shall be glad to go through this in applicable detail with you.
If you look at the plots and the drone videos listed for the asset company you can see that infrastructure (road, electricity, gas, water, sewage and street lighting) has been built out already alongside sector 3 and 2. Key information and extensive descriptions are also at hand in the info memo.

Q: Are all incoming ETH converted to EUR immediately?
A: Yes, though subject to market conditions. For example, the time it took to get sufficient confirmations was considerably longer in December 2017 when the crypto market was spiking. Until our minimum target of 2.281671m EUR is received, the deposit required to secure the projects initial use case, all incoming ETH is converted to EUR. Once this amount is surpassed, Hansecoin reserves the right to hold qualities of ETH as it sees fit based in its internal risk management policies.

Q: What happens if the soft cap for your asset raise is not met?
A: I presume you are referring to the hard floor of EUR 3.275 M as a fall-back rather than the soft or target cap. Were that hard floor fail to be reached, the software and platform infrastructure development would have to be carried on by HanseCoin preferably with its community in parallel to progressing with the road map, however, after an extension window of e.g. another 10, 15 or even 30 days were to run out before reaching the hard floor, and if no restructuring of the agreements with the asset owners could be agreed upon (deposit levels, timing), the development would have to carry on without securing the use case. The latter would remain an obligation of the owners to develop without HanseCoin. In turn, in such an unlikely event, HanseCoin would have to secure another Use Case for which it has two more assets at hand in the same attractive area, one in a comparable development stage and one at an earlier stage. Both would allow for collateralisation and lower deposit levels so that a replacement would be a suitable option. As stated in the info memo if less (as in not enough to entertain any of the other options) is raised until a future PPT issuance on the basis of the Hansecoin platform, the VPAT may have to be rescinded.
Notably, the aforementioned time frame and cascade of options should, from our perspective, allow HanseCoin sufficient capacity to attain sufficient commitment from VPAT partners and progress with the Asset Company on mutually agreeable terms.

Q: What if you can't get approved to go on with the development, or when the approval is getting delayed an unreasonable (>1y?) amount of time?
A: The risk of development of the tokenisation to become regulatorily compliant is mitigated as follows: HanseCoin will file alongside its efforts to create the PPTs, its application to attain an investment firm license in Estonia allowing it to act as fund manager. This puts it on the safe side if considerations of certain tokens as securities were to become effective. The board and supervisory board of HanseCoin assisted by counsel and auditors will take all necessary steps and employ their professional experience to meet the requirements and become licensed in the defined regulatory process. As indicated in the roadmap, CoinMetro as an exchange requires substantially more comprehensive licensing for a variety of their additional services to be rendered in the future and is seeking theirs with a view to having them in place by end of Q2 2019.
If the technical development of the tokenisation were to be delayed beyond the date of regulatory compliance, HanseCoin with the VPAT has the option to seek an extension to complete whatever technical matters would have to be resolved, albeit that the economic interest at hand should mitigate that. HanseCoin is keen to issue, list, and expand their tokenisation platform approach to a wide audience of potential participants and process a variety of underlying hard assets, as only then it is successful. The interest of HanseCoin's founders and team are aligned with the VPAT holders. We will push the development with determination and daily grind. As such we believe that a delay as you indicated beyond a month or even three months over the Vesting Period whilst technically possible is highly unlikely.

Q: What can HanseCoin offer me that I already do not have access to? I can already directly invest in property or buy equity in residental property via crowdfunding websites etc. What I cannot do as a U.K. citizen is easily invest in overseas property, does HanseCoin fix that problem? In addition will HanseCoin give people in emerging markets easy access to say, European and American property? What kind of restrictions might I face if , as a U.K. citizen, I wanted to buy an ABT for a U.S. property?
A: You can own a piece of real estate in any jurisdiction via our platform, ie, fractional ownership. As we onboard new projects, some will be European. The US comes with certain restrictions that may make onboarding US based projects an issue. At this time, the projects of interest are non-US. We will be sure we are compliant with any projects we approve.
Re crowd funding, on our home page at Hansecoin.com, scroll down and read:
Let’s talk about The Gap.

Q: Can I own Hansecoin if I am a US resident?
A: As referred to in the disclaimers of the info memo and the webpage, HanseCoin with its ongoing private sale and the upcoming public sale in principle is currently not offered to participants who are U.S. residents as regulation so implies and we are not offering securities at this time. Without providing legal advice, a private pre-sale may e.g. allow up to 35 non-accredited investors to participate under certain limitations and exemptions under rule 506 (b), however it may have little bearing on us as the private (pre-)sale of Hansecoin VPAT's would likely be considered a form of general solicitation in the U.S. Thus, in consideration of rule 506 (c) only accredited investors, i.e. those who can verify that they are, may have a path to participate in the private (pre-) sale. May we suggest to consider this with counsel and message us directly so that we can review the matter, in case you are an interested accredited investor. We obviously value your interest and shall be glad to continue the dialogue. It is not unlikely with upcoming regulation in Estonia and the EU as well as HanseCoin progressing to become a regulated investment firm in the near future that future issues including a potential mastercoin could be offered also in the U.S. We certainly would be glad if market rules were to allow truly global coverage.
NEW FAQS FOR RON TO POST ON WEBSITE:

Q: Did I understand correctly, that HanseCoin is a overarching platform for more asset backed token projects? That token PPT token itself is not limited to the current real estate (RE) you are developing? If so, what happens if let's say, the current RE is finished and you start another project, will there then the same process as now, but with a PPT2?
A: HanseCoin is an overarching platform and not limited to one project, albeit that the first project contributed at a significant discount to the platform to support its launch carries itself and the platform build-out. HanseCoin's goal is to efficiently onboard a variety of projects which fit the 'Gap' range for development capital, i.e. small/mid cap project financings for hard assets. We have three projects in the short term pipeline which shall be launched in stages over the next months. The structuring employed in the initial project can, as per current review be rolled out in more than a dozen, potentially more jurisdictions of the current EU-27. Variations of the structure used by HanseCoin render it sufficiently resilient to over time include more hard assets including factory machinery and equipment as well as segments such as rolling stock. However, we start with something small, solid and compact in real estate development where platform and participants in its onboarded project(s) can capitalise on sufficient potential to reap liquidity premiums and reduce transaction cost through tokenisation.

Q: Can I draw a similarity to Coin Metro’s (CM's) ICO express here: Both HanseCoin and ICO Express to onboard external projects? Now you guys lead the real estate (RE) development yourself, but maybe the next project is developed by an external team but uses your platform for tokenization?
A: I would say that we will work closely with CM's on their ICO Express, as there is no need to reinvent the wheel and we believe that they are in the process of setting up an excellent platform. Technically, I would consider us the Asset Financing Module associated with/connected to their platform. Given our understanding of RE in specific and asset financing in general the intention is to process a series of projects and develop the capacity of HanseCoin to assess, validate, wherever needed structure and adapt/improve underlying projects with strong project financing parties (project managers, engineers, architects, banks, brokers, supervisors, construction companies) etc. - we facilitate the RE development or third party projects employing HanseCoin as the project tokenisation platform.
In other asset finance segments, such as factory and machinery, the industries we can work with are widely varied, as Chris just stated, this can be biotech as well as manufacturing, the key is the underlying asset.
For retail solutions the logistics solutions connecting e-commerce and highstreet require substantial investments in hardware, data processing capacity and software. Whilst the line there blurs between pure hard assets and its steering/process technology, the physically distributed logistics aspect is intriguing and we believe we can in the future benefit from tokenisation.

Q: I'm interested in finding out more re contributing to the private sale (amount of funds being raised, minimum contribution size, etc).
A: Pursuant to ongoing discussions with a variety of interested parties including family offices across Germany, Austria and Scandinavia committing to certain amounts we have created a sliding incentive scale for those entering the Private Sale:
During the current phase up till the hard floor for the platform build-out we offer small, yet attractive discounts to early bird participants, whereas larger ticket sizes obtain higher discounts. Parties committing participations of EUR 50,000k receive a discount (as a token amount bonus) of 2.25%, EUR 100,000 equates 2.5% discount/bonus, EUR 200,000 results in 3% discount/bonus and tickets of EUR 500 k and above receive a 4% discount/ bonus.
For those followers here on Telegram the ticket sizes can be amended but discounts/bonus tokens of 1% kick in starting at EUR 10,000 (equivalent in ETH).
For the sake of good order, recently we have done one brief flash sale to reward our hardcore followers, tech contributors and early birds at a significant one time only 5% discount/bonus. We do not envisage it to be repeated.
As the token vesting period ends after latest 9 months and a tradable token is then issued even the lowest rung of discounts is slightly better than many peer products and approaches, certainly better than parking it in money market products. For small to medium size participants, generally, parking liquidity in attractive vehicles with underlying real estate and hard assets in Europe is not such a bad idea at this time. The tokens are available at short notice.
If this is of interest to you please advise which volumes in the above brackets you wish to pursue and we shall open the Private Sale to you.

Q: How does HanseCoin compare to other companies attempting to issue asset backed tokens? Aren’t such tokens securities?
A: Hansecoin has a unique approach in that it has achieved regulatory compliance even with token issuance. Have a look at the Whitepaper. Normally, tokens of this nature will be regulated as securities. So for HanseCoin to stay compliant, we have a regulatorily compliant token (VPAT) for the platform which is already asset backed. It is non-negotiable, non-transferrable, and non-tradeable thus is not a security token. HanseCoin will later issue tokenized securities known as PPTs upon being regulated as an investment firm in lock-step with what EU / Estonian regulators decide.
As noted, Hansecoin is live already. Its original token, the VPAT, is already asset backed and called an ABT. Due to substantial demand from private equity we are in a private sale at the moment. If and when suitable a public sale may be announced.
So, no more weeks of waiting as with so many others. If you are interested to enter into the private sale please register and let us know. [my note: Smartlands has launched their mastercoin which should be a security since it is tradeable but not issuing tokenized securities as of yet.]

Q: How can HanseCoin claim to have first mover advantage compared to, say, Smartlands, when HanseCoin hasn't even finished its capital raise or developed its platform? If my understanding is correct, Smartlands completed their token sale last year and have already developed their core platform
Also, I'm finding the whitepaper diifficult to digest. It’s very wordy. I'm sure the key points could be presented more succinctly.
A: For the sake of good order, Smartlands has placed its token but is not asset backed from the begininng. By the way, it has lost -24.8% from its peak 4 days ago, though through its excellent PR, I believe it is the only coin that has outperformed bitcoin this year, which attests to the power of the asset backed token.
That said, Smartlands does not have any live project. HanseCoin has not made such claims but is the first regulated asset backed token in that it has the underlying asset pledged to it in proportion to the funds raised, and one live project plus three which its shareholders have either secured or control over. The issuance of the HanseCoin PPT token is solely deferred due to and dependent on the current regulation. In order to become independent from that, HanseCoin will file to become a regulated investment adviser in December so that by February it can issue securities and thus tokenised securities no matter what ambiguity may exist then for other token approaches.
In the meantime, those who are holding HanseCoin VPAT tokens whose value is not pegged to any cryptocurrency but to hard assets sidestepped the recent huge drop seen in bitcoin and most all other cryptocurrencies. The average cryptocurrency has now lost over 90% of its value in 2018. Meanwhile, the value of the VPAT is pegged to the euro and the underlying asset.
Besides blockchain related software improvements, the current platform development is predominantly geared to the expansion into 17 EU jurisdictions and related systems compatibility, database design, and applicable interfaces, compliance process designs, linkage with exchanges, as well as research and development into future tokenisation components.
As to the whitepaper, based on requirements of the EFSA (the Estonian regulator), PWC Legal as our counsel, auditors, and tax advisers, we have to reflect the matter comprehensively. The summary pages tend to be important whilst the flow charts are there to assist with visuals.
Whilst you may consider it excessive, we have condensed both the tokenisation and the use case significantly. Some of our team have longstanding careers in investment banking, corporate audit, and structured finance. Any offering circular in asset backed bonds, a closed end fund prospectus or an euqity placement memorandum would run into hundreds of pages and a 8x multiple word count.
Our target was to simplify the sourcing, issuance and distribution of asset financing with benefits to participants and developers alike whilst substantially reducing transaction cost to enable and accelerate that. That is the key proposition of blockchain and only our platform is live and doing that. Having a listed token today is secondary.
Here are some bullet points which focus on the key points to our platform:
· First-mover Advantage - HanseCoin is the world's first regulated blockchain platform to tokenise hard assets;
· Technology - Solid Blockchain technology applied properly greatly lowers transaction costs across the board from project inception to completion thus participants reap high yields;
· Demand - Leading developers and sponsors across Europe wish to onboard their projects onto our platform;
· Regulatory Compliant - Regulatory passporting capacity into the majority of EU markets and capacity to go beyond;
· Client Access to Higher Yield - Development projects bring high yields to people who are not classic development investors at a time of historically low interest rates;
· Risk Mitigation - Excellent diversification opportunity to peg capital to the value of the underlying hard assets.
· Ongoing Transaction & Success Fee Generation - The platform generates ongoing transaction fees per project. The more projects and more participants, the higher the profits which are shared between Participants and the platform.
But the way, together with CoinMetro (www.coinmetro.com) and its CEO Kevin Murcko we will at Slush to present their exchange and our platform as the first solid Asset Backed Token for hard assets to listed on CoinMetro.

Q: How do projects such as https://www.meridio.co compete with HanseCoin?
A: Meridio.co offers fractional ownership which, whilst fine as a concept, does not lend itself to fit the tokenised securities approach EU regulators are starting to take (they have MIFID, AIFM, etc. to work with) and the specific segment of project/asset financing where development capital is actually required, the small and mid cap segment in Europe and beyond (we call it 'the gap' of EUR 1.5 to EUR 10 m of equity participations in projects) is not addressed. HanseCoin already owns shovel ready land and its platform is regulated.

Q: A few questions:
1a. Which tokens do private sale participants receive for their contribution? VPAT, PPT or both?
2a. Are VPAT tokens temporary in nature, having no further use once they have been swapped or burned following the completion of the platform development?
3a. What is the main potential benefit to a participant in acquiring VPAT tokens?
4a. Is PPT the participation token for the first project only or for all future projects supported by the platform? (Or something in between?)
5a. What is the HanseCoin master token?
A:
1a. The private sale participants receive VPATs.
2a. The VPAT is the asset backed token which starts the platform and provides exclusive access to (a) the PPTs prior to them becoming tradable as well as (b) the VBTs. All VPATs are burned, swapped, or extended at the end of the vesting period.
3a. The VPAT provides exclusive access to future tokens including the tradeable PPT, VBTs for bonuses, and potential further privileges which the platform may grant to its early sponsors and participants. The VPAT is also the only path to secure discounted PPT token access.
4a. As of today, the PPT covers the initial project use case. Each additional project will see an appropriate amount of PPTs issued to reflect the initial capital requirement of the underlying asset development project at its inception. During the platform development and regulation phase, additional VPATs will be issued in regard to further projects in the pipeline. The first PPT will be known as HanseCoin 8. Each additional project will countdown from 8 thus the second project will be known as HanseCoin 7, and so forth. Upon the first issuance and listing of a PPT, thus subject to further regulation of tokenised securities, it is envisaged to have VPATs only issued for each private sale phase.
5a. A master coin which represents not just one specific project but the value of HanseCoin as a whole company will be issued at some point when project tokens have gained critical mass in terms of projects, countries/markets covered and distribution. It seems likely that the countdown will fit well with this. The valuation will be dictated by the ongoing projects, projects to be on-boarded, and any white-labelling on the HanseCoin platform. We envisage that all original VPAT holders should have privileged access to an attractive bonus for the master coin which shall be accrued through VBTs during the PPT issuance period. These specific VBTs would vest until the issuance of the master coin. This is an exclusive benefit to the initial VPAT participants.

Q: So are VPAT and PPT *categories* of token rather that the actual tokens themselves? In other words, HanseCoin 8 is *a* PPT not *the* PPT? Also, if private sale participants receive VPATs, then why does hansecoin.coinmetro.com offer "HANS" tokens, which Chris tells me refers to "HanseCoin 8" tokens? Shouldn't coinmetro be offering VPAT tokens at this stage, not PPT tokens?
A: VPAT is a virtual token. PPT will be a compliant tokenized security we issue sometime next year, potentially ahead of the projected 9 month vesting period of the VPAT. The PPT will be compliant, in line with regulations as they are formed.
HANS is the ticker for the VPAT. Only the first phase VPAT currently exists that represents the first use case. HanseCoin 8 is the first use case. HanseCoin 7 will be the second use case, ticking down by one each time a new project is launched.
By the way, there is no such thing as a security token even though STO stands for security token offering. But then, many of the terms used in the cryptospace have been bastardized such as the term 'whitepaper'.

Q: I presume the VPAT for the second project will have a different ticker? What is the ticker for the first PPT (HanseCoin 8)?
A: A ticker will be assigned then by the listing exchange and the symbol is not decided, yet, although it seems reasonable to consider a variation of HANS (which is the ticker for the first VPAT) plus an indicator (technically, the ticker can remain as is whilst the sub-category is defined as an index).
submitted by HanseCoin to u/HanseCoin [link] [comments]

The intelligent investors guide to cryptocurrency: Part 3b - Pricing and liquidity

*Introductions: I'm joskye. A cryptocurrency investor and holder. *
...
 
Hi again. This is the third part in our ongoing series on how to trade better and determine intelligent investments in cryptocurrency for the future.
 
 
Part 3b continues where I left off with a discussion about price metrics specifically, what determines the price and the importance of liquidity:
...
 
The day traders:
 
As I mentioned in my previous article, as of writing almost every cryptocurrency is determined purely by speculative value.
 
 
For instance in cryptocurrency Bitcoin is still the biggest player in the game. It carries a per unit price of $900 per coin. There are currently 16,090,137 (16 million) coins in circulation giving it a total marketcap value of [$900 x 16090137 =] $14481123300 or 14.48 billion USD.
 
 
Shadowcash looks even more meagre compared to the total cryptocurrency marketcap with only 0.048% of the total cryptocurrency sphere.
To any Shadowcash holders despairing at this point, relax. There are over 707 cryptocurrencies trading as of writing and SDC holds the 27th ranking in terms of market cap. In such a competitive field, filled with scams that's pretty good. Moreso when you consider that SDC is a legitimate technology and is currently probably very undervalued.
...
 
Lets look at the rich list for bitcoin:
 
Why did I just talk about this?
 
In cryptocurrency I see this happening on the markets all the time. Indeed market manipulation effects every single cryptocurrency eventually.
...
 
Market manipulation!
 
Large holders of valuable, high marketcap coins will often make multiple small volume purchases of less valuable, low marketcap coins. Often this will follow announcements regarding developments in that low marketcap coin.
 
 
Low volume buying in a market with low daily trading volume can gradually drive up the price attracting an influx of buyers into that coin; often they will make larger volume purchases of it which helps drive up the price much further. This will trigger a further chain of buyers experiencing FOMO (fear of missing out, detailed in Part 2) who will drive up the price even further. The price will pump. Often will smaller cap cryptocurrencies this may result in a sudden 20, 40, 60 or even +100% increase in value often over a very short time space (1-2 days, 1-2 weeks maximum).
 
 
The only way to discern if the sudden rise in coin value is due to pre-rigged market manipulation is to look at:
 
You are looking for organic, gradual growth based on a solid value proposition. Sudden large spikes in value should make you pause and wonder if it's worth waiting for a gradual correction (organic drop) in price before entering your buy order.
 
Do not fall for a pump and dump. Stick to the lessons covered in previous parts of this guide (especially part 3a and 2) and you will be much less likely to lose money in the long run trading and investing in cryptocurrencies.
...
 
The pattern of change on daily trading volume, the order book and liquidity:
 
Lets look at SDC and Bitcoin again. This time we are going to compare the daily trading volume (last 24 hours) in USD.
 
 
I'd just like to use this opportunity to point out and reinforce the idea that day traders not holders dictate the daily price of an asset. I'd also like to point out daily global trading volume on Forex is $4800 billion which makes Bitcoin a very small fish in the broader arena of global finance and trade i.e. Bitcoin is still very vulnerable to all the price manipulation tactics and liquidity issues I am going to be describing in this article by bigger players with richer pockets.
 
 
The daily trading volume also gives you an idea of how much fiat currency you can invest into a given cryptocurrency before you suddenly shift the price.
 
 
A sudden rise in coin price heavily out of proportion to the rise in daily trading volume should be the first sign to alert you to a pump & dump scam.
 
Daily trading volume should show a steady increase over time with sustained buy support at new price levels; this is a good marker of organic, sustainable growth.
...
 
For more detail you can now look at the depth chart:
 
The depth chart is very useful to know how much fiat currency is required to cause the spot price of a given cryptocurrency to rise or fall by a given amount.
 
NB the price of most cryptocurrencies is expressed in Bitcoin because it has the largest market cap and daily trading volume of all cryptocurrencies by a very large margin and because with a few exceptions (Ethereum, Monero) most cryptocurrencies do not have routes to directly purchase via fiat currency without first purchasing Bitcoin.
 
Liquidity is super important. People often complain about a market lacking liquidity but that is often because they are trading in fiat volumes which far exceed the daily trading fiat volumes of the cryptocurrency they are referring to. If you are investing or trading in a cryptocurrency, always factor in the your personal liquidity and need for liquidity relative to that of the cryptocurrency you are investing in. In other words don't expect to make a profit next day selling 'cryptocurrency x' if the size your single buy order composes >90% of the buy orders on the market for 'cryptocurrency x' that day (indeed in such a scenario be very prepared to sell at a loss next day if you absolutely have to)!
 
 
There are certain patterns on a depth chart that make me believe a significant, sustained price rise is imminent: One example occurs when there is a very large volume of buy orders (>25% of total buy volume within 5% of current price) very close to the current (spot) price, and a very large number of sell orders close to but significantly above the spot price (approx 25% total sell volume within 10% of current price) and especially if the total buy order volume is a significantly higher percentage than it has previously been. This simply indicates high demand at current price which may soon outstrip supply. Again I stress that these patterns can be manipulated easily by wealthy traders.
 
...
 
The order book is another way of looking at the depth chart and allows you to see the specific transactions occurring that compose daily trading volume by the second!
 
I find it useful because it allows me to identify:
 
...
 
The price charts:
 
Discussions about price charts could be endless. I'm not going to go into too much detail, mostly because I'm an investor who believes the value proposition, good consistent development, decent marketing and communications will ultimately trump spot prices and adverse (or positive) short term price trends in the future.
...
 
The news cycle:
 
...
 
Other interesting points: The 'coin x' scenario and the ridiculousness of marketcap:
 
'Coin X' is an imaginary hypothetical coin. There are only 10 in circulation. It has no value proposition beyond it's speculative value i.e. it will never generate a revenue independent of it's speculative value.
 
 
I'd like to point out the similarities between ZCash and 'coin x' (especially during it's launch).
...
 
Lessons:
 
 
...
 
References:
1. Coinmarketcap rankings: https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/ 2. Coinmarketcap daily trading volumes https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hou 3. Bitinfocharts - Top 100 Richest Bitcoin addresses: https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html 4. Crypto ID - Shadowcash Rich list: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/#!rich 
 
...
 
Further articles in this series:
 
"The intelligent investors guide to cryptocurrency"
 
Part 0 -
Part 1 -
Part 2 -
Part 3a -
Part 3b -
Part 4 -
Part 5 -
Part 6 -
Part 7a -
 
"The intelligent investors guide to Particl -"
 
 
Full disclosure/Disclaimer: At time of original writing I had long positions in Ethereum (ETH), Shadowcash (SDC), Iconomi (ICN), Augur (REP) and Digix (DGD). All the opinions expressed are my own. I cannot guarantee gains; losses are sustainable; do your own financial research and make your decisions responsibly. All prices and values given are as of time of first writing (Midday 8th-Jan-2017).
 
Second disclaimer: Please do not buy Shadowcash (SDC), the project has been abandoned by it's developers who have moved on to the Particl Project (PART). The PARTICL crowd fund and SDC 1:1 token swap completed April 15th. You can still exchange SDC for PART but only if it was acquired prior to 15th April 2017 see: https://particl.news/a-community-driven-initiative-e26724100c3a for more information.
 
Addendum: Article updated 23-11-2017 to edit references to SDC (changed to Particl where relevant to reflect updated status) and clean up formatting.
submitted by joskye to Particl [link] [comments]

So... The insurer whose "solvency" is most dependent on maintaining the fiction that the riskiest assets in Exter's Inverted Pyramid (derivatives) are actually worth something - is now paying the devs who write the code for the solidest asset in that pyramid (Bitcoin). What could possibly go wrong?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Exter
Exter's Pyramid
Exter is known for creating Exter's Pyramid (also known as Exter's Golden Pyramid and Exter's Inverted Pyramid) for visualizing the organization of asset classes in terms of risk and size.
In Exter's scheme, gold [and now Bitcoin?] forms the small base of most reliable value, and asset classes on progressively higher levels are more risky.
The larger size of asset classes at higher levels is representative of the higher total worldwide notional value of those assets.
While Exter's original pyramid placed Third World debt at the top, today derivatives hold this dubious honor.
I like to think that the graph in the link below provides a nice, updated version of "Exter's Pyramid", although the layout isn't exactly triangular (but the sizes of each asset class are actually more accurate):
http://www.businessinsider.com/all-of-worlds-money-in-one-chart-2015-12
Note that Bitcoin is the safest asset in the system - and derivatives are the riskiest.
And there is very, very little Bitcoin - versus a shitload of derivatives.
But if you hold Bitcoin (ie, you hold your private keys), then you have absolutely no counterparty risk. Versus if hold a derivative, it could be totally worthless - depending on whether the counterparty behind it is "solvent" or not.
And I would think that the battle between "people who hold Bitcoin" versus "people who hold derivatives" will shape up to be a million times more massive than the battle between savers and borrowers that we've already seen in the world.
In other words, an insurance company like AXA, which is more dependent on derivatives than any other insurer, is probably freaked out that they'd lose over a trillion dollars if Bitcoin were to succeed.
So... Can people start to see why I'm so freaked out about AXA funding Bitcoin development via their "investment" in Blockstream?
The insurance company with the biggest exposure to the 1.2 quadrillion dollar (ie, 1200 TRILLION dollar) derivatives casino is AXA. Yeah, that AXA, the company whose CEO is head of the Bilderberg Group, and whose "venture capital" arm bought out Bitcoin development by "investing" in Blockstream.
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/4k1r7v/the_insurance_company_with_the_biggest_exposure/
http://www.actuaries.org.hk/upload/File/ET210513.pdf (see where AXA is on the graph on page 5)
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=axa+blockstream&ia=web
It's really poignant to see some clueless people wondering what AXA's "business model" might be for investing in Bitcoin.
Those clueless people need to wake the fuck up and face the reality of how bankers continue to print trillions of dollars to enslave the world.
AXA has absolutely zero interest in becoming some kind of two-bit Red Hat earning chump change in "support fees" or even "transaction fees" from being the maintainers / developers of some kind of open-source cryptocurrency sidechain code.
I can pretty much guarantee you: that is not their "busines model" for wanting to control Bitcoin development via investing in Blockstream.
As of 2007, AXA already had 1.123 trillion Euros in AUM (Assets under Management).
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/AXA_%28AXA%29/Assets_Management
That's over a million million Euros.
And as of 2014, one half of AXA (just their "AXA IM" part) had AUD 891 billion of Assets under Management.
http://www.professionalplanner.com.au/cut-and-paste/2015/03/06/axa-im-reaches-record-assets-under-management-34877/
So, for a giant insurer like AXA, "investing" $55 million in Blockstream is like dropping a fraction of a penny on the ground.
And any paltry few million dollars - or even billions of dollars - which AXA might make or lose from Blockstream / Lightning or whatever, would still be pretty insignificant bordering on immaterial when compared with the half a trillion or so dollars of derivatives which are on AXA's balance sheet - and which they must desperately try to continue to prop up, by continuing to keep people believing in the whole charade of the worldwide derivatives casino.
That's what is at stake here. The very definition of the worldwide accounting ledger itself - not a few entries in it. And as we know, Bitcoin provides an entirely new - and transparent, and unforgeable - ledger.
That's why companies like AXA want to control Bitcoin development. Not to make millions or even billions of dollars on fees. But to to continue to prop up the so-called legitimacy of their legacy accounting ledger containing hundreds of trillions of dollars. (Remember, the derivatives market is a ledger with entries currently totally $1.2 quadrillion dollars - ie, 1200 trillion dollars - and that ledger itself is what Bitcoin's very existence is threatening to "uber".)
AXA does not give a fuck what happens to the $55 million that got invested in Blockstream in that second funding round they participated in back in February 2016. The only purpose of that money is to sprinkle a few hundred thou around per dev per year to control useful idiots like Gregory Maxwell and Adam Back and outright lunatics like Luke-Jr - to let those economically ignorant coders keep on toiling away on their idealistic pie-in-the-sky mathematical cypherpunk daydreams, while the Bitcoin network goes into paralysis due to artificially small blocksize due to doctrainaire dolts like the current crop of "Core" devs.
AXA does not give a fuck if Blockstream or SegWit or Lightning succeeds.
The only reason AXA is interested in Bitcoin is because Bitcoin is real money, and AXA's balance sheet uses a legacy ledger based on the fiction of fantasy fiat money - and Bitcoin threatens to destroy all that.
AXA knows that it must destroy Bitcoin - or else Bitcoin will destroy AXA.
And before some brainwashed amateurish sophomoric loser wanna-be astroturfing troll from r\bitcoin wanders over here again and tries to spout some meaningless nonsense disruptive bullshit to sidetrack this serious topic (responses in the previous thread linked above included gibberish like "get a job!" or "MtGox!" or "but scammers!") - I would appreciate it if someone around here could divert about a half hour of their precious multitasking time and brainpower towards addressing the 800-pound gorilla of a question in the room, namely:
Do you think it's a good idea for the insurance company with the biggest exposure to the "legacy ledger" of derivatives in both $ and % terms (AXA - with $464 billion in notional derivatives exposure, over 50% of their balance sheet in this 2013 report - see graph on page 5) to be paying the devs who are in charge of "upgrading" our Bitcoin code - or do you think there might be the tiiiniest chance of some kind of conflict of interest there???
This could be the biggest issue in Bitcoin right now.
But it doesn't seem to get addressed head-on very much.
You don't hear the name "AXA" or the word "derivatives" used very much - although these might be the most important aspects of the issue here.
This isn't about earning or losing a million dollars here or a billion dollars there.
This is about redefining the very heart and soul of the world's ledger - which Bitcoin has a chance to do.
This is about that tiny speck called "Bitcoin" at the top of the chart in the link below:
http://www.businessinsider.com/all-of-worlds-money-in-one-chart-2015-12
organically growing and blossoming and eventually destroying that grotesque metastazising mass called "derivatives" at the bottom of that chart.
That is why AXA is interested in Bitcoin.
It's about the ledger itself - not the payment rails - not even the tokens - and certainly not the fees.
Trust me, no company with 1 trillion dollars of Assets under Management is going to pay any attention to some miniscule little runt like Bitcoin with a mere $7 billion in market cap - unless they think that miniscule little runt actually might contain the code which might possibly replace their whole precarious phoney fiat fantasy accounting ledger which pays their billion dollar bonuses and buys their mansions and yachts.
That is why AXA is "investing" in Bitcoin. To control it - not to earn some pathetic tiny fees from it.
And it's time we started addressing this issue seriously.
The main question is:
Do you want a massive, derivatives-dependent, legacy fiat insurance company like AXA controlling Bitcoin development??
Upvotes on these kinds of posts are certainly nice (and drive-by troll-snark is of course tedious and annoying).
But what I would really like to know is whether there is anyone on these forums who wants to spend some time seriously discussing things like:
  • the $1.2 quadrillion derivatives casino,
  • that other notorious insurance group (AIG) which engaged in massive and fraudulent derivatives shenanigans that almost took down the world's economy in 2008,
  • the massive and glaring conflict of interest in letting a company whose very façade of solvency depends on maintaining the fantasy legacy ledger which Bitcoin threatens to replace
  • etc etc etc
Do we want a corrupt derivatives monster like AXA (which is probably only steps away from becoming the next AIG) to be in charge of paying Bitcoin devs?
I don't have all the answers. I'm just some shmuck who spent a few years writing code for some major financial institutions, and I heard and saw a few things, and I watched how those scumbags almost brought down the world's economy in 2008, and I am fully convinced that they do not want something like Bitcoin to "uber" their legacy ledger.
So I am simply raising the question, and I really would like to know if anyone else has anything substantive to say about this:
Should the insurance company with the biggest exposure to derivatives (the riskiest asset in the world), which is totally dependent on maintaining the charade of the world's legacy fantasy fiat accounting ledger, be in charge of paying the devs writing the code for the solidest asset in the world (Bitcoin), which threatens to "uber" that very ledger?
Could there be a conflict of interest in this kind of situation?
Am I the only person around here who finds this absolutely outrageous?
Or does everyone just think it's fine and dandy - and maybe we could even just put someone like Blythe Masters or Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein in charge of paying Bitcoin devs?
Henri de Castries might not be a household villain name like some of those above. He's probably a more behind-the-scenes guy. But he is the chairman of the Bilderberg group, and he is the CEO of AXA, and he is going to move to HSBC this fall - and now he is paying Greg Maxwell's and Adam Back's and Luke Jr's salary.
And then we sit here and keep wondering why "our" devs keep ignoring us when we've been begging them for over a year to pretty-please give us bigger blocks so the Bitcoin network won't die.
Well, maybe there's more to the story than meets the eye here.
Maybe it's time for us to start to recognize the magnitude of who we might actually be up against here, and how they might have used social engineering to infiltrate and neutralize the Bitcoin development process, and how desperate they might be to maintain the so-called legitimacy of their make-believe legacy accounting ledger which Bitcoin is poised to replace.
Maybe it's time to stop bringing a pocket-knife to fight a SWAT team.
Like I say, I don't know what the answer will turn out to be. (Maybe a spin-off, but who really knows at this point.)
But I do think it's time for all of us to sober up and start asking some serious questions about this bullshit we've been getting from Blockstream.
We need to be realistic about who and what we're up against - and how many trillions of dollars they know are at stake - and how dirty and sneaky they're willing to fight.
And we need to liberate Bitcoin development from the people who stand to lose the most from Bitcoin - and put it back in the hands of people who stand to win the most from Bitcoin.
submitted by ydtm to btc [link] [comments]

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